SB1754 Kill a motorcyclist get a ticket?

[Mrs. D]

Justin Carpenter died as a result of a cager turning left in front of him and his famly and friends have rallied to change the laws:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/RidersUnite

Driver of the car got a $166 dollar ticket.

There are links to your senators on the page.

His friends and family are on a mission to help other riders. We can help.

[caps]

That's bullshit

[echoraven]

No facebook. Damn.

[Mozzi]

No facebook. Damn.

Here ya go.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...KING/120429831

[RICO]

Put a comment up, but don't get how they are trying to reach 1500 pages?
R.I.P.

[hvtopiwala]

tahts complete crap, they should get a manslaughter charge!

[Stix09Phoenix]

This is very sad. I am expecting to get flamed for this but just hear me out and think about it. Yes, the cager was not paying close enough attention. And yes, she is responsible for the death of a motorcyclist. However, she did not do anything that can be deemed as malicious. That is where the law is divided. If she was drunk and decided to drive and hit him, it would be considered malicious because she knew exactly what she was doing when she got behind the wheel.

Now look at it like this. If she had t-boned another car, and the driver died, would everyone be in an uproar over her not going to prison for manslaughter? It was an accident. Very stupid/inconsiderate/irresponsible on her part, but it was not intentional. That is why she is not in jail.

[hvtopiwala]

^very true. good side of the devils advocate

[camel]

This is very sad. I am expecting to get flamed for this but just hear me out and think about it. Yes, the cager was not paying close enough attention. And yes, she is responsible for the death of a motorcyclist. However, she did not do anything that can be deemed as malicious. That is where the law is divided. If she was drunk and decided to drive and hit him, it would be considered malicious because she knew exactly what she was doing when she got behind the wheel.

Now look at it like this. If she had t-boned another car, and the driver died, would everyone be in an uproar over her not going to prison for manslaughter? It was an accident. Very stupid/inconsiderate/irresponsible on her part, but it was not intentional. That is why she is not in jail.

I agree with you.

A $166.00 ticket doesn't equal what happened to the rider, and who knows what would.

I've gotten bigger tickets for speeding and didn't kill anyone, so just like most things with this country the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Or atleast comes close enough to where people will change their behavior. In this case driving with your eyes open.

RIP rider. So sad to pay a price on someone else's mistake.

[hvtopiwala]

yeah its just the justice system is completely stupid. i got a $196 fine the otehr day for going 11 over the speed limit, while some1 that killed a biker got a $166 ticket. its upsetting.

i was watching the news and if john edwards gets convicted guilty of his victimless crime (using campaign funds for personal uses) he can face 30 years in jail. they give murders less time!!!

[Stix09Phoenix]

I agree that there should be a lot more than a $166 ticket. I think that anytime there is an accident of any kind where a death occurs, there should be at least a full week (20+ hours) of training and license recertification. Not to mention a much heftier fine. $166 wouldnt make me change my ways, especially when all you have to do is pay $25 for a little online class and no points will be assessed.

[Gramps]

I'm really torn on this one. I never want to see anyone die. If we're being honest though even if it isn't our fault, we bring a lot of that danger on ourselves by choosing to ride motorcycles. Same type accident two cars, one turns left in front of the other one, no one dies. Do left hand turns suck yes, yes they do. The reason they're so dangerous is because of the form of transportation we choose to use. I look at it as part of the risk we take riding motorcycle there are simply things that if they happen, because we're on a motorcycle our chances of serious injury or death or much greater.

[Mrs. D]

This is very sad. I am expecting to get flamed for this but just hear me out and think about it. Yes, the cager was not paying close enough attention. And yes, she is responsible for the death of a motorcyclist. However, she did not do anything that can be deemed as malicious. That is where the law is divided. If she was drunk and decided to drive and hit him, it would be considered malicious because she knew exactly what she was doing when she got behind the wheel.

Now look at it like this. If she had t-boned another car, and the driver died, would everyone be in an uproar over her not going to prison for manslaughter? It was an accident. Very stupid/inconsiderate/irresponsible on her part, but it was not intentional. That is why she is not in jail.

We have punishment here in florida for manslaughter, whether it is voluntary or involuntary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter


Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder. The distinction between murder and manslaughter is said to have first been made by the Ancient Athenian lawmaker Draco in the 7th century BC.[1]

The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill – a state of mind called malice, or malice aforethought – or the knowledge that one's actions are likely to result in death; manslaughter, on the other hand, requires a lack of any prior intention to kill or create a deadly situation.

Manslaughter is usually broken down into two distinct categories: voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. In states such as Florida, manslaughter is not broken down this way. In Florida, manslaughter, defined as: The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder . . . is a second degree felony punishable by up to 15 years in state prison regardless of whether the act may have been intentional or not.[2] If manslaughter is committed upon a child via culpable negligence under FL statute 827.03(3), then the crime is aggravated manslaughter of a child which is a first degree felony punishable by up to 30 years in state prison.[3] The penalty is the same if it is committed upon the elderly or disabled. Also, under the 10-20-Life system, if a firearm is used in any way then the penalty will be raised to the next degree.[4]

[hvtopiwala]

but then how come if you are involved in an accident, and the driver of the other vehicle dies, u are not charged with manslaughter?

i know you can get charged with manslaughter if u run over a pedestrian but wasnt sure about kiling drivers/passengers in other vehicles.

[Stix09Phoenix]

hmmm...I stand corrected then. Either way, if the punishment applies in cases of motorcycles, then it should apply to cages as well, which doesnt happen very often.

[09r6girl]

but then how come if you are involved in an accident, and the driver of the other vehicle dies, u are not charged with manslaughter?

i know you can get charged with manslaughter if u run over a pedestrian but wasnt sure about kiling drivers/passengers in other vehicles.

They have 30 days from the time of the accident to charge the driver with manslaughter. Basically, if I'm driving and I am found to be at fault in an accident that sends you to the hospital, and you die within 30 days, I can be charged with manslaughter in your death. This is irregardless of whether you're a pedestrian, biker, cager...whatever.

Now, they don't HAVE to charge the driver with manslaughter. I think that's where the issue comes in. The family of the deceased obviously wants justice, but for whatever reason manslaughter isn't always the case....maybe because of other factors. I would think they would charge everyone the same, but if there are certain factors such as visibility issues, speed of the person that died, driving history of the driver, I would think they would take those into account as well.

[Stricken]

This is very sad. I am expecting to get flamed for this but just hear me out and think about it. Yes, the cager was not paying close enough attention. And yes, she is responsible for the death of a motorcyclist. However, she did not do anything that can be deemed as malicious. That is where the law is divided. If she was drunk and decided to drive and hit him, it would be considered malicious because she knew exactly what she was doing when she got behind the wheel.

Now look at it like this. If she had t-boned another car, and the driver died, would everyone be in an uproar over her not going to prison for manslaughter? It was an accident. Very stupid/inconsiderate/irresponsible on her part, but it was not intentional. That is why she is not in jail.

I've mentioned this point in another thread. It couldn't agree with you more. We choose to ride, we know we don't have a lot of protection and when we do ride and it's the risk we take everytime we get on our bikes. It's an accident.

[TimeBandit]

This is very sad. I am expecting to get flamed for this but just hear me out and think about it.
....

Late to the party on this one.... but Disagreed.
Naaa.... won't flame you. This is a great educational moment:

Manslaughter is a legal term for the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder.
....
The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill – a state of mind called malice, or malice aforethought – or the knowledge that one's actions are likely to result in death; manslaughter, on the other hand, requires a lack of any prior intention to kill or create a deadly situation.

Taken from Wikipedia excerpt, but the point here is that accidental death of another human being is in-fact manslaughter. It happens all the time when a drunk-driver kills someone, even if it's the passenger inside their own car. In your rant you talk about malicious, and your rant would have held water if we were talking murder.

Want aka "justice"? It ain't over. Let's not for get about the Civil system where she can still face a wrongful death law suite. Trust me - it's not $166 and it's over - there plenty the family of the victim can still pursue, and until she's actual tried, manslaughter could be still on the table..... but it might take petitioning the attorney's office etc....

[3triple0gt]

Stu[id me should read the entire thread before adding my .02

[luigiscar7]

I believe in this particular scenario, assuming the motorcycle rider wasn't speeding or riding aggressively (aka stupid), she should receive a punishment that surpasses a 166 dollar fine. However, I believe charging her with manslaughter would be a bit too draconian. That's something that will follow you the rest of your life.

I would encourage a stiffer penatly, but certainly not a manslaughter charge.