New Finding In Human Evolution!!!

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 10:29 AM

Really Interesting.......Must Read

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070808/...uman_evolution

By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer
Wed Aug 8, 5:57 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Surprising research based on two African fossils suggests our family tree is more like a wayward bush with stubby branches, challenging what had been common thinking on how early humans evolved.

The discovery by Meave Leakey, a member of a famous family of paleontologists, shows that two species of early human ancestors lived at the same time in Kenya. That pokes holes in the chief theory of man's early evolution — that one of those species evolved from the other.

And it further discredits that iconic illustration of human evolution that begins with a knuckle-dragging ape and ends with a briefcase-carrying man.

The old theory is that the first and oldest species in our family tree, Homo habilis, evolved into Homo erectus, which then became human, Homo sapiens. But Leakey's find suggests those two earlier species lived side-by-side about 1.5 million years ago in parts of Kenya for at least half a million years. She and her research colleagues report the discovery in a paper published in Thursday's journal Nature.

The paper is based on fossilized bones found in 2000. The complete skull of Homo erectus was found within walking distance of an upper jaw of Homo habilis, and both dated from the same general time period. That makes it unlikely that Homo erectus evolved from Homo habilis, researchers said.

It's the equivalent of finding that your grandmother and great-grandmother were sisters rather than mother-daughter, said study co-author Fred Spoor, a professor of evolutionary anatomy at the University College in London.

The two species lived near each other, but probably didn't interact, each having its own "ecological niche," Spoor said. Homo habilis was likely more vegetarian while Homo erectus ate some meat, he said. Like chimps and apes, "they'd just avoid each other, they don't feel comfortable in each other's company," he said.

There remains some still-undiscovered common ancestor that probably lived 2 million to 3 million years ago, a time that has not left much fossil record, Spoor said.

Overall what it paints for human evolution is a "chaotic kind of looking evolutionary tree rather than this heroic march that you see with the cartoons of an early ancestor evolving into some intermediate and eventually unto us," Spoor said in a phone interview from a field office of the Koobi Fora Research Project in northern Kenya.

That old evolutionary cartoon, while popular with the general public, is just too simple and keeps getting revised, said Bill Kimbel, who praised the latest findings. He is science director of the Institute of Human Origins at Arizona State University and wasn't part of the Leakey team.

"The more we know, the more complex the story gets," he said. Scientists used to think Homo sapiens evolved from Neanderthals, he said. But now we know that both species lived during the same time period and that we did not come from Neanderthals.

Now a similar discovery applies further back in time.

Susan Anton, a New York University anthropologist and co-author of the Leakey work, said she expects anti-evolution proponents to seize on the new research, but said it would be a mistake to try to use the new work to show flaws in evolution theory.

"This is not questioning the idea at all of evolution; it is refining some of the specific points," Anton said. "This is a great example of what science does and religion doesn't do. It's a continous self-testing process."

For the past few years there has been growing doubt and debate about whether Homo habilis evolved into Homo erectus. One of the major proponents of the more linear, or ladder-like evolution that this evidence weakens, called Leakey's findings important, but he wasn't ready to concede defeat.

Dr. Bernard Wood, a surgeon-turned-professor of human origins at George Washington University, said in an e-mail Wednesday that "this is only a skirmish in the protracted 'war' between the people who like a bushy interpretation and those who like a more ladder-like interpretation of early human evolution."

Leakey's team spent seven years analyzing the fossils before announcing it was time to redraw the family tree — and rethink other ideas about human evolutionary history. That's especially true of most immediate ancestor, Homo erectus.

Because the Homo erectus skull Leakey recovered was much smaller than others, scientists had to first prove that it was erectus and not another species nor a genetic freak. The jaw, probably from an 18- or 19-year-old female, was adult and showed no signs of malformation or genetic mutations, Spoor said. The scientists also know it isn't Homo habilis from several distinct features on the jaw.

That caused researchers to re-examine the 30 other erectus skulls they have and the dozens of partial fossils. They realized that the females of that species are much smaller than the males — something different from modern man, but similar to other animals, said Anton. Scientists hadn't looked carefully enough before to see that there was a distinct difference in males and females.

Difference in size between males and females seem to be related to monogamy, the researchers said. Primates that have same-sized males and females, such as gibbons, tend to be more monogamous. Species that are not monogamous, such as gorillas and baboons, have much bigger males.

This suggests that our ancestor Homo erectus reproduced with multiple partners.

The Homo habilis jaw was dated at 1.44 million years ago. That is the youngest ever found from a species that scientists originally figured died off somewhere between 1.7 and 2 million years ago, Spoor said. It enabled scientists to say that Homo erectus and Homo habilis lived at the same time.

**PoppaNoDoz** · 08-09-2007, 10:50 AM

Cool - learning new stuff doesn't mean we go back to the OLD stuff that is like, what, 10,000 years old??? It just means we learned something new. Unless there are new "scriptures" being written I'm pretty sure the book is complete on "creationism"

Besides which . . .

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Thanks for the religious side spoole.....Now anyone for reality side!

J/k spoole

But seriously I found it muy interestante I like hearing about the different pieces to the puzzle of how we evolved and became how we are now!

**Fictionnn** · 08-09-2007, 12:07 PM

There is one error in all of that. Modern man (Homo sapiens sapiens) did not live at the time of Neanderthals (Homo sapiens neandertalensis). Infact it was Cromagnon Man (Homo sapiens archaic) who lived with Neanderthals. Modern man infact evolved from Cromagnon approxamatly 30 thousand years after Neanderthals died out.

With that said how is this such a big discovery. They already knew how the process was working.

Years ago they discoverd that Australopithecus africanus lived at the same time as Ramapithecus. Now while Ramapithecus is more ape like than Australopithecus africanus there still were direct correlations between the 2 species. This theory was thrown out because of the diffrence between the 2 and now Ramapithecus isnt even in the Human line.

Now we have the samething once again with Homo erectus and Homo habilis. If you were to compair the two Homo habilis was more ape like than Homo erectus.

Look at this notice how ALL of them share a timelines (look even closer at Australopithecus robustus and Homo habilis)

Ardipithicus ramidus - 5 to 4 million years ago
Australopithecus anamensis - 4.2 to 3.9 million years ago
Australopithecus afarensis - 4 to 2.7 million years ago
Australopithecus africanus - 3 to 2 million years ago
Australopithecus robustus - 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
Homo habilis - 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
Homo erectus - 2.0 to 0.4 million years ago

None of this information is new yet it proves that what the scientists recently discovered had already been discoverd.

Stupid Scientists

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 01:00 PM

You are a DICK Babe!!!!!

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 01:23 PM

Actually The cromagnon was called the homo sapien sapien the "Knowing know man" and did live at the time of Neaderthals. The neaderthals actually died out 28,000 years ago which was found from bones discovered in Coatia. As well as the Cro-magnon was tentatively dated back to 90,000 liveing in the middle east. So in fact they did live together (homo sapien sapien and neaderthal) you just have your names wrong!

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 01:27 PM

By the way they arent throing something out because of characteristics of being ore or less ape like they are actually tossing it because as they stated you can't evolve from something and co-exist. and because the erectus was a meat and potatoes kinda guy while the habilis like his veggies the habilis went.

So they tossed it because it wasnt possible to be true

But picked the we are more like one because it fit with how we are today..meat eaters

**Fictionnn** · 08-09-2007, 01:29 PM

All three Neaderthal, Cromagnon, and Modern man are considered "Homo sapiens" it is the diffrence between them that make them what they are

Biologically modern human beings (species Homo sapiens) first appear about 120,000 years ago. Cro-magnon man, with prominent chin, a sharply rising forehead, and a gracile skeleton existed some 40,000-10,000 years ago. Remains were first found in France in 1868 and then throughout other parts of Europe. Cro-Magnon man was anatomically identical to modern humans and differed significantly from Neanderthal man, who disappeared in the fossil record shortly after Cro-Magnon's appearance.

My previous post was a bit incorrect but Modern man never lived with Neanderthal which is what i was saying

**Fictionnn** · 08-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by OhSNAP!!!

By the way they arent throing something out because of characteristics of being ore or less ape like they are actually tossing it because as they stated you can't evolve from something and co-exist. and because the erectus was a meat and potatoes kinda guy while the habilis like his veggies the habilis went.

So they tossed it because it wasnt possible to be true

Evolution is caused by mutation and natural selection, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the ENTIRE group to evolve into another instantly. So that means that a "Group" of a species can evolve while the other does not there for alowing them to co-exist.

**pyroman1** · 08-09-2007, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by OhSNAP!!!

...because the erectus was a meat and potatoes kinda guy while the habilis like his veggies the habilis went...

That's what will happen to all those vegans and vegetarians, they'll go extinct! Learn from history!

**pyroman1** · 08-09-2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Fictionnn

Evolution is caused by mutation and natural selection, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the ENTIRE group to evolve into another instantly. So that means that a "Group" of a species can evolve while the other does not there for alowing them to co-exist.

Yep. You started to confuse with the other post though, then I realized you said Modern man.

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 01:49 PM

Modern man isnt refering to either neaderthal nor cromagnon
But cromagnons features resemble that of modern man, they are only traces of modern man. So modern man is technically is referred to after the cromagnon , not referring to them.

Homo sapien is just a reference to our genus- meaning knowing man, therefore the neaderthal or cromagnon is their specis.

By the way they only slightly more resembled modern man but what set them apart was Cromagnons fascination with art. And the neaderthals lack of fascination of art was where the extra knowing came from (or sapien)

**Fictionnn** · 08-09-2007, 01:59 PM

I dont know why you are having so much trouble understanding what i am saying

Ist so easy

a caveman could do it

**OhSNAP!!!** · 08-09-2007, 01:59 PM

They were not evolved, they infact were identical except for slight diferences with the components of the skulls.

White men and black men are relatively the same but there are some differences in our bone structure that can tell a scentist if he is black or white or even asian for that matter.

There was no evolving taking place