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View Full Version : pilot powers vs metzler M3?



z1000r
01-08-2007, 02:18 PM
I have a new set of M3's on my z1000 as recommended by barney's as an upgrade over stock bridgestones and supposedly their most popular seller. Ive noticed that almost everyone that Ive been riding with runs pilot powers. Why is this? (Jdr racer, racerraul and a few other guys) who like to lean aggressively on the street .....(use ALL of the tire's surface.) I have gotten over all the way on the left and am about a 1/8th of an inch away from the right edge.

The_Jarhead
01-08-2007, 02:25 PM
I run M3s I love em.
I had bridgestones once. They sucked.
I'm not sure what you asking here but just cause they run Pilots doesn't make them lean over more than you.
I run my M3 all the way down to the edge.
Pilots are very popular also I personaly haven't used them.

z1000r
01-08-2007, 02:39 PM
I was just asking if they are a better/stickier tire than the m3's. I also noticed that my M3's seem to have a bigger max lean angle than my bridgestone and also the pilot powers

The_Jarhead
01-08-2007, 02:39 PM
BTW - here is a really good review on the M3. as you read it they didn't believe Mettzlers claims at first and fournd out it was a great tire.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/08january06_metzelerm3.htm

A lot of people sware by pilot powers but I have also found that many of them refuse to try anything else to base that on.

z1000r
01-08-2007, 02:40 PM
im guestimating the lean angle by the rear tire.

The_Jarhead
01-08-2007, 02:42 PM
I've only had my M3s slip on me once and that was getting a little to heavy on the gas, going through a left hand turn through an intersection (read hi amounts of oil and road grim) right after it had started to rain.

z1000r
01-08-2007, 02:58 PM
Ive felt my rear slip slightly a few times in 2nd gear turns during a couple different Nruns. The first couple times I thought it was because it was a new rear I put on, but after I had it scuffed in it still slipped slightly. These were corners that I had leaned over almost if not to the edge of the tire. It may have just been my fault for being too quick with the throttle though. My riding has improved greatly in the past month or so and I may not have pushed my old bridgestone that hard to notice any slippage. But I did have the bridgestone leaned over to the edge on the left and barely missed the right side.

Sorry sounds like im rambling... but when I take a corner at full lean and accelerate out of it i feel the rear get a little loose for a split second but its not slipping enough to leave rubber or make any noise and it doesnt snap back if I stay on the throttle. Is this common? or am I pushing too hard in those corners?

Greene22
01-08-2007, 03:03 PM
What is your air pressure in that rear tire?

z1000r
01-08-2007, 03:05 PM
Im going to sound like an idiot....but I havent checked it...but i will when I get home...:chair:

Greene22
01-08-2007, 03:07 PM
I was slippin the rear alot until i set the pressure down to mid 30's...now it sticks likes da glue.

z1000r
01-08-2007, 03:09 PM
Ill set it at 34 when I get home...Im guessing the front should be around 36/37

Greene22
01-08-2007, 03:13 PM
Ill set it at 34 when I get home...Im guessing the front should be around 36/37

depends on the tire, but I have mine set front 32, rear 32 for track/twisties.
I set the rear back up to 40 for highway riding.

griffinzx10
01-08-2007, 03:15 PM
tires on any bike forum is a hot topic... Some swear by one tire brand, and some have tried many. As CTATE posted in a different thread about track tires in response to racerrauls question about track tires, vs PP's... Mostly it boils down to confidence you have in your tires.. If you dont have confidence in your tires, it doesnt matter what brand you use...

Most guys find a tire they like and stick with it. For me that was PP's on the street, now that I have been running faster on the track, I am using Mich race tires...

z1000r
01-08-2007, 03:16 PM
Im sure that barneys probably put mine around 40...Ill take 5lbs out of front and rear and see what happens... I wont be able to make it to the track any time soon I dont think. I definitely want to go though

z1000r
01-08-2007, 03:18 PM
tires on any bike forum is a hot topic... Some swear by one tire brand, and some have tried many. As CTATE posted in a different thread about track tires in response to racerrauls question about track tires, vs PP's... Mostly it boils down to confidence you have in your tires.. If you dont have confidence in your tires, it doesnt matter what brand you use...

Most guys find a tire they like and stick with it. For me that was PP's on the street, now that I have been running faster on the track, I am using Mich race tires...

If my tire press. adjustment fixes it I will stick with these just so I can get used to one tire...

The_Jarhead
01-08-2007, 03:20 PM
pressure is a big deal check it.
I usually run them at 32-34 on the track 38-40 on the street.
I will somtimes feel a little fead back in the tire but not a slip. You may be rolling on a tiny bit to soon or to much to soon. Try rolling the power up a tad slower. Thottle control is a b!tch sometimes.
The brigdestone would flat out come out from under me if I rolled the throtle to hard in a turn.

One thing I have heard people say (and again this is hearsay I haven't run the PPs) is they don't give enough feed back. in other words they don't give you that little slip you are getting, when they break loosse they are gone.

The_Jarhead
01-08-2007, 03:22 PM
I say you look at it this way. if those guys are using up all their tire and you still have some to go and you are running with them that tells you you still have a lot of tire available.

Gibby
01-08-2007, 03:29 PM
I ran M1s back in the day and loved them. I almost ot M3s, till I read about the PP 2CTs. similar to the PP, but they have a softer compound on the sides for gription. The center is harder, giving better wear and high speed durability. Also, they PP2CTs were found to have the greatest lean angle of any tire available so far, matching that found on a race tire. here is a link to the info. I LOVE THESE TIRES!

http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/index.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004103725&codePage=2092004103725_07092004135921&lang=EN

griffinzx10
01-08-2007, 03:32 PM
pressure is a big deal check it.
I usually run them at 32-34 on the track 38-40 on the street.
I will somtimes feel a little fead back in the tire but not a slip. You may be rolling on a tiny bit to soon or to much to soon. Try rolling the power up a tad slower. Thottle control is a b!tch sometimes.
The brigdestone would flat out come out from under me if I rolled the throtle to hard in a turn.

One thing I have heard people say (and again this is hearsay I haven't run the PPs) is they don't give enough feed back. in other words they don't give you that little slip you are getting, when they break loosse they are gone.

JH i have heard people say that, but more or less I have heard that said regarding the track. Only once did I ever think my PP's slipped on me (hee hee I said pp's slipped) that was at jennings just recently...

The_Jarhead
01-08-2007, 03:40 PM
JH i have heard people say that, but more or less I have heard that said regarding the track. Only once did I ever think my PP's slipped on me (hee hee I said pp's slipped) that was at jennings just recently...
that could very well be the case. again just hearsay since I havn't run them.

For me I'm looking for a good all around tire since I don't just run street. or track and I don't have money to have extra tire sitting around or time to be swapping them every time I go/getback from from the track.

skip
01-08-2007, 03:52 PM
I run dunlop on the track, and PP's on the street.........

racerraul
01-14-2007, 03:29 PM
I've used several diff tire brands over the years... Dunlop Sport Maxes, Bridgestone BT56, Michelin TX 15/25's & now pilots...

Of all those the grip wasn't really a problem, but the profiles were a big diff across brands.

I stuck with the Michelins because I felt they had a more triangular shape that felt had quicker side to side transition.

On the Z... If you are using michelin pilots... drop the front 11mm. Set spring preload to 2 lines showing (I ended up with no lines showing after a few rides) & set up the rear shock preload to 10mm showing. This along with the Pilots (instead of the Stock Bridgestones) improved the flick ability of the Z a great deal for me... If you ever do the 636 suspension upgrade, the bike will beg you to lean further, something I only ever experienced on my brothers old zx7, and that thing was a standard of reference in handling for me.

SideShow
01-14-2007, 07:13 PM
I like black tires that stick to da road

The Arsenal
01-14-2007, 10:27 PM
What tire MFG's do you see on the Podiums?

PoppaNoDoz
01-14-2007, 11:02 PM
Ive noticed that almost everyone that Ive been riding with runs pilot powers. Why is this?

Because the path of least resistance is to go with the group. I prefer Pirelli / Metzler myself, but that is just my own preference.

moke
01-14-2007, 11:16 PM
I have a new set of M3's on my z1000 as recommended by barney's as an upgrade over stock bridgestones and supposedly their most popular seller. Ive noticed that almost everyone that Ive been riding with runs pilot powers. Why is this? (Jdr racer, racerraul and a few other guys) who like to lean aggressively on the street .....(use ALL of the tire's surface.) I have gotten over all the way on the left and am about a 1/8th of an inch away from the right edge.

Tires are a preferance what works for you may not work for the other guy, and vice versa. You have to remember just becuase you lean the rear tire to the edge doesnt really prove anything its the speed you carry coming into and through the corner. Their are minor differences that youll beable to notice on the street for the type of riding your doing and that the north run requires even at the fastest or in some cases slowest pace:bawling:"But" if you insist on trying to lean on the street becarful first, second real lean angle is measured by the front tire not the rear!:cool:

SloDown
01-14-2007, 11:32 PM
I run qualifiers..Luv um long time

Knine
01-15-2007, 12:19 AM
On The Streets/N>RUN...It Really Doesn't matter That Much Which brand of tire U choose.. Because, There is Always Some Dirt, Dust,Sand, Leaves, gravel..That will allow the tires To break loose occasionaly!

Knine
01-15-2007, 12:21 AM
Moke , Can U explain"Real Lean Angle is Measure By The Front Tire"..
Thanx

moke
01-15-2007, 12:49 AM
explaination?yes,... gage your lean by the front tire? do you have chicken strips their. :(?
bottom line is your not going fast enough on a north run to "REALLY" tell the difference between brand A and brand B. With the excpetion of the obvious.
(like mich turn in quicker.)
To find the real edge and worth of a tire you have to go to the track and run the tire until its at its end.(to know the real worth). But even then you have to understand the difference bettwen you/I and Mat Maldin? hugh! get it?





:bawling:

racerraul
01-15-2007, 01:38 AM
Moke... I am pretty certain that riding styles entering & exiting a corner determine the wear & contact patch in use at full lean.

From all that I have read regarding riding & tires, the same degree of lean (that is as measured 0-180) will wear the front & rear accordingly. However a person that has a more rear steering bias\on the gas sooner in\out of the corner will lighten the load up front & cause the edges of the tire up front to not be used as often...

Someone that trail brakes into the corners carrying with it a bit more corner speed entrance will likely have the same size chicken strips on the front to match the rear. Also coasting through a corner using momentum instead of the gas out, will push on the front more. This often results in the rear chicken strips to be bigger than the front...

Considering this... I am pretty certain that scientifically you can measure lean with the rear as good as the front... Where the chicken strips are or arent, can be more an indication of riding style.

On my previous bike, I never was quite comfortable with its rear. I felt more comfortable with trail braking on it & consistently cornered doing so. The fronts on that bike where always used to the edge while the rear always had about a 1/8-1/4 inch on the edges I never seemed to use...

On this bike, its been the opposite until recently. Having a more upright position I had to find the feedback to make me comfortable entering corners. My 1st set of tires had a good 1/4 of the edge not use on the front while the rear was used to the edges.

I have since then upgraded the suspension & finally dialed the front end to where it is much more confidence inspiring & on this set of tires I am using the front & rear to the edge...

Coincidentally, on a recent weekend ride... I had someone looking the bike over tell me that I needed to change my riding style cause the front should not be used to the edge... go figure.

Knine
01-15-2007, 03:02 AM
explaination?yes,... gage your lean by the front tire? do you have chicken strips their. :(?
bottom line is your not going fast enough on a north run to "REALLY" tell the difference between brand A and brand B. With the excpetion of the obvious.
(like mich turn in quicker.)
To find the real edge and worth of a tire you have to go to the track and run the tire until its at its end.(to know the real worth). But even then you have to understand the difference bettwen you/I and Mat Maldin? hugh! get it?




The reason I ask The ?....Someone told me Once, That the Chicken Strip On Your Front Tire Should be just like the 1 on The Back.... I have a Huge Chicken Strip On the Front Tire & None on The Bac...





:bawling:



The reason I askthe ?.....Someone told me once, that the chicken Strip on the front tire should be just like the 1 on the bac....I have a Huge chicken strip on the front tire & none in the bac....

moke
01-15-2007, 09:16 AM
well it just dictates the end of traction if your all the way to the edge on the front. besides its much harder to remove the front chkn strp then the back.

moke
01-15-2007, 09:22 AM
Moke... I am pretty certain that riding styles entering & exiting a corner determine the wear & contact patch in use at full lean.

From all that I have read regarding riding & tires, the same degree of lean (that is as measured 0-180) will wear the front & rear accordingly. However a person that has a more rear steering bias\on the gas sooner in\out of the corner will lighten the load up front & cause the edges of the tire up front to not be used as often...

Someone that trail brakes into the corners carrying with it a bit more corner speed entrance will likely have the same size chicken strips on the front to match the rear. Also coasting through a corner using momentum instead of the gas out, will push on the front more. This often results in the rear chicken strips to be bigger than the front...

Considering this... I am pretty certain that scientifically you can measure lean with the rear as good as the front... Where the chicken strips are or arent, can be more an indication of riding style.

On my previous bike, I never was quite comfortable with its rear. I felt more comfortable with trail braking on it & consistently cornered doing so. The fronts on that bike where always used to the edge while the rear always had about a 1/8-1/4 inch on the edges I never seemed to use...

On this bike, its been the opposite until recently. Having a more upright position I had to find the feedback to make me comfortable entering corners. My 1st set of tires had a good 1/4 of the edge not use on the front while the rear was used to the edges.

I have since then upgraded the suspension & finally dialed the front end to where it is much more confidence inspiring & on this set of tires I am using the front & rear to the edge...

Coincidentally, on a recent weekend ride... I had someone looking the bike over tell me that I needed to change my riding style cause the front should not be used to the edge... go figure.

yeah not on the street( front tire to the edge)

but as always i think people on this site anylize things way way to much! All i meant by that comment IS the front tire is much harder to get to full lean thats it, thats all. jezz raul just ride the shit out of it? stop thinking so much?
things will become clearer on feb11 for you your style and all the north run jokers?


:bawling:

racerraul
01-15-2007, 09:28 AM
yeah not on the street( front tire to the edge)

but as always i think people on this site anylize things way way to much!

I disagree... those that want to know should ask. If you, I or anyone else has the answers, we should post them...


All i meant by that comment IS the front tire is much harder to get to full lean thats it, thats all. jezz raul just ride the shit out of it? stop thinking so much?
Am I thinking too much? You think that may be the cause of my loss of hair? And here I thought it was hereditary... oh damn.. there I go thining again... oops!



things will become clearer on feb11 for you your style and all the north run jokers?:bawling:
I wont be @ the Feb 11th trackday... I will be there this weekend instead... I hope to make the next TSB track day though. Try not to be to broken up about me not being there. ;)
And glad you think we are all a bunch of comedians on our weekend rides... it is all about having a good time after all ;)

moke
01-15-2007, 09:29 AM
IMO,You cant measure a tires real worth unless you have the facility and skill to do so, The north run isnt going to provide these conditions.(no matter who you are):bawling: So you can discuse all the theorys you want but until you can truely demolish a tire to its limits, its just a theory. each rider has different definitions of what real grip is, what a real slide is, and what works for them.

POWDER-P
01-15-2007, 09:30 AM
all the tires do their job its just what you feel comfortable with.i like the new 2ct falls in the lean easy good grip,and gives good fead back.

moke
01-15-2007, 09:35 AM
I disagree... those that want to know should ask. If you, I or anyone else has the answers, we should post them...

true but theirs a point you get to on line that my lead someone into dangerous territory on the street. your edge of trac my not be the same for someone else thats what i mean, all things are relitive depending on the ability.

Am I thinking too much? You think that may be the cause of my loss of hair? And here I thought it was hereditary... oh damn.. there I go thining again... oops!



I wont be @ the Feb 11th trackday... I will be there this weekend instead... I hope to make the next TSB track day though.

good i hope you have a fun and safe time raul, and maybe some of these things iv said WILL make more sence. like stop thinking so much, its not a dig at you its just to technical for me and the way i ride? i just do it?

:bawling:[/QUOTE]

MianoSM
01-15-2007, 09:37 AM
This thread seems like its getting a bit off topic.....


I prefer the PP on the street, only ridden the M3's once on about a 100 miles, so really I don't have a good view point.

I've always ridden on Pilots.